Roy Thomas Is An Enormous Piece Of Weasel S**t
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Roy Thomas is hellbent on destroying his own legacy in comics by stealing from others. Roy Thomas is an enormous POS from stealing co-creator credit for Wolverine. A character he has essentially zero impact on as a creator. His only influence on Wolverine was as EIC. A position that comes with a nice salary and benefits but no creator credit unless you are writing. Yet Roy continues stealing from the legacies of Len Wein, John Romita Sr., Herb Trimpe and more by perpetuating his lies. Wes breaks down the latest chapter in Roy Thomas stealing creator credit from people who considered him a friend. Roy Thomas is an enormous piece of weasel.....
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#marvel #deadpoolandwolverine #wolverine
This reminds of when Jack Kirby said that he based the New Gods character, Houseroy, on Roy Thomas, as he thought he was a slimy person who trailed after Stan Lee, who Jack wasn’t too fond of either. I always liked Roy’s work, though, especially on the All Star Squadron and Alter Ego magazine.
Next Roy will try to claim he created Conan...
Stan Lee already tried 😂😅
It was his concept. REH just made some preliminary sketches. 😂
Man, I thought highly of Roy Thomas an editor. I did not know he was such a jerk.
Mark Waid criticizing ANYONE'S Actions are Laughable . Last I checked , Roy Thomas never Strong armed a Publisher to not publish a Comic . It's unfortunate what Roy Thomas is doing to his legacy and Disgusting what he's doing to the families of People who were his friends . But the LAST person I want to hear Condemnations from is Mark Waid .
Thomas isn't taking away anybody's royalties though.
Don’t forget to give Roy Thomas for creating the golden age with Invaders and All-Star Squadron 😂
😂😂😂😂😂
....the libraries of Howard and Burroughs...
Greed is a powerful motivator. I'm shocked by Roy's behavior. He's one of the greats, and you're right, this does put a taint on his legacy.
@fishin4bass2002Wolverine is a large pie to get a slice from
He also waited until the other creators were DEAD to come out with this
Roy wouldn't spout such nonsense if Len were alive.
As much as I love Len Wein, John Romita, and Herb Trimpe, Wolverine became an icon because of Chris Claremont, John Byrne, and Terry Austin. The history and creative whirlwind around that character makes it really impossible for anyone to take full credit. Wolverine is great because the fans wanted more, and many people contributed more and more and more to the character.
they made the character better, but they did not create wolverine.
Wolverine was already hugely popular in the pre-Byrne issues of X-Men drawn by Dave Cockrum.
So if his legacy is so legendary, shouldn't Roy fight tooth-and-nail for to preserve his credentials? Yeah, it's just more litigation, which is the last things the industry needs. But in this era where the big two are completely restructured to sell sexual perversion and toxic politics, this story barely rates a mention.
Spot on
Wes, in your own video from 2021 titled "Roy Thomas, House Man or Risk Taker?" you mentioned Wolverine first in your list of Marvel characters that Thomas "created or co-created". I've always heard that Wolverine was a very collaborative effort between Thomas, Wein, and Romita. There's a reason why so many Hulk 181s are signed by Thomas as well as by Wein, Romita, and Trimpe. I find it in very poor taste for Thomas to say that his name deserves to come first on the list, and the optics are maddeningly terrible since he waited for Wein and Romita to die before ramping up his campaign for top billing. However...
As early as 1982, in a fanzine called X-Men Chronicles, Wein himself says that the "Wolverine" name was Thomas's suggestion, and in the same publication Thomas states that he wanted the character to be Canadian and "fierce" (The Comics Journal has an excellent article on this). All of that is not to say that I think Thomas is *more* of a Wolverine creator than Wein or Romita--I don't--but he's definitely in the conversation. The way people are reacting to this, you'd think that all of a sudden Thomas was coming out of nowhere, but he's not. And it isn't just something he's done in the last decade. Again, the aforementioned interview was from 1982. He was already considered a co-creator by many sources going back 40+ years. Do people have amnesia? Did you forget that you yourself called Thomas a "creator or co-creator" of Wolverine just a few years ago?
Thomas deserves some pushback on his recent claims, but all of the vulgar grandstanding of Waid & co. seems to be magnified virtue signaling in my book. From what I understand Thomas' claim has no bearing on the amount of money Wein and Romita's families will receive going forward. At least, Thomas himself has explicitly stated that his claim will not diminish their payouts. From a Forbes article: "First and foremost, this is not a financial issue. I’m not getting a penny, as far as I know, and it in no way takes away from whatever Len [Wein] and John [Romita]’s families may be getting." Is that true or not? I don't know, but many people are stating that Thomas is stealing money from widows when he himself as said that this doesn't affect finances. We need clarification on the actual royalty contracts--and I wouldn't hold my breath. Again, I am not championing Thomas's claim, just looking at the actual stated facts here.
No living person other than Thomas was there, so I don't think anyone can dismiss his claim as a "lie". It's a bad situation and not a wise one on Thomas's part, since it will hurt his posterity. These narratives have a way of simplifying over time. No one remembers that Saint Jack Kirby also tried to steal credit for Spider-Man away from Steve Ditko, nor do they remember that in the '60s Kirby testified for Marvel corporate and against Joe Simon for the ownership of Captain America. They only remember Kirby as the guy screwed over by Marvel afterwards. On the flipside, Thomas will be remembered as a glory hog trying to rob corpses, not as the person who came up with the name, nationality and possibly the "fierceness" attribute of Wolverine.
Wes gets himself worked up and goes way overboard on his rants. I guess he thinks it helps his ratings. It's getting really tiring though. Like watching Comic Tim. At first his act is amusing just for the energy and uniqueness, but after a few episodes you realize it's all just bs.
The pity is that Roy was a good team player at the time, but being a good team player doesn't mean you get to cop credit for creating things you didn't because you were on hand to make some suggestions.
Chris Claremont and John Byrne deserve the majority of the credit for making Wolverine the most popular X-Man as well as Frank millers mini series
Agree. They made him interesting. He was a pretty flat character before they got ahold of him. Byrne isn’t mentioned enough as the emphasis on Wolverine greatly increased once he got on the book.
@@Vicshade they may have made wolverine better, but they still did not create him.
@@johnrunion5357 I never said they created the name or original look. But face it they took him from a d list character to an A list character. There's rumors that even that isn't important enough to Disney who may replace him.
This is true. Everything you like about the character is from those guys.
Roy Thomas is no stranger towards being a diva. He left Marvel because Jim Shooter ended the practice of writer's being their own editors.
When I saw his name in the credits at the end of Deadpool/Wolverine I was absolutely disgusted. All of the things that Roy Thomas actually did at both of the big two has just been washed away with his behavior.
No, it really didn't wash it away.
@@clonegeek3317 Maybe sullied it with mud would be a better description. I have been reading/collecting for 45 plus years and always enjoyed almost everything Roy Thomas did. This just put him in the same category as Mark Waid for me.
@@O_G_HELLBOY Considered some of the things Waid has done, what Roy did isn't all that bad. He isn't getting any royalties out of it.
If anything I'm more curious why Marvel let it happen
@@clonegeek3317 I find it hard to believe that it wasn't financially motivated. Especially at this point in his life.
@@O_G_HELLBOYWell it should be, DP&W is about to become the highest grossing Rated R movie of all time.
This information really tarnishes Roy Thomas's legacy for sure. His list of accomplishments is already impressive - he really has no need to steal the accomplishments of others.
He has a point though. Stop jumping on bandwagons while being ignorant
I just hope that Marvel doesn’t abuse the situation to cheat the families of the original creators out of money … but I wouldn’t bet on it.
They will sadly. Marvel does not care about anyone except themselves and their greed.
@@tayojones9460And how do you know this? What in Kevin Feige history is any indication of him not caring about the original comic book creators, despite technically from a bussiness standpoint, with the writers guild, he has no actual obligation to do so.
Didn’t some kid send Marvel an idea for a hero with an adamantium skeleton to Marvel months before Wolverine cameoed?
That's definitely worth looking into. I know it was like that for the black suit Spider-Man. The kid sent in the concept and he was compensated like a couple hundred dollars with zero creator credit. And now look....
Yes, that's true. The original concept for Wolverine was sent in by a kid called Andy Olsen to Marvel's FOOM magazine in 1973, and published in #2.
In 2014, Andy explained;
"I had heard of a creature called wolverine. From what I knew it was reputed to be pound for pound meanest animal on Earth. Not even Grizzly bears would tangle with one. A worthy attitude to have when fighting crime. Wolverine it was. So I set on using that as a base concept. If you notice in my adolescent sketch there is a pattern on the back of his costume that mimics the fur shading of the animal as well as the front mask sort of like the markings of its head. The details other than that eludes me, but looking back at the sketch he seemed to have a metal skeleton and no claws, because I couldn't imagine a superhero scratching an opponent. Sissies scratch. I sat down and worked up my sketches eventually working up a finished drawing to send off."
@@DocReasonable So where is Andy’s money? It seems like he has a solid claim on the Wolverine idea.
@@davidfarrington4308 Exactly. Read the Bleeding Cool interview with him, unfortunately I can't post the link but it will come up in a search.
In fact it was Claremont, Cockrum and Byrne who gave Wolverine his popularity, THEY should be thanked first.
This is so sad...
You are a living legend Roy, stop this nonsense 😐
still they did not create the character.
This actually the first time I’ve ever heard Roy Thomas’ name associated with Wolverine. Len Wein always comes to mind. Roy Thomas to me comes to mind for Conan.
And even Conan was just a cheap bid from the Robert E Howard estate
And the guy he did Conan with said that about him. Think about that.
Roy Thomas named the character and gave Wein and Romita the outline of the attributes - short and with a wolverine's temper.
@@VolkswagenGamer 100% true.
@@TBOTSS And that he would be Canadian.
He should get nothing more than a thank you!
Roy taking after his mentor Stan in the “claim to much credit for the creation of a character” department.
At least Stan tried to give others credits for co creation. It should have been sooner but still.
sounds like something Bob Kane would do.
I was going to say the same thing.
Sad but true
That to me is a good indicator of how full of shit some creators can be.
To his credit(?), Kane did it while his victim was living.
...or stan lee.
If my creator credits included Luke Cage, Vision, Iron Fist, Man Thing and damn ULTRON, and I still was credited for my likely minimal contribution to Wolverine; I wouldn’t be complaining, but that’s just me. Roy should have kept his mouth shut on this one
He also created The Vision, Morbius , and the second Black Knight (I believe .).
I disagree. If you had any part in Wolverine and now you see the newest movie is smashing all box office records you would be silly not to say something.
To be honest, Byrne and Claremont made Wolverine, as a character. He was nothing before they took the character over.
however he had all ready been created. they made him better, but they did not create him.
@@johnrunion5357 yeah, but he was a nothing until he was put in the X-Men. Designing a costume and origin story, doesn’t create a character. Byrne/Claremont made the Wolverine that is in pop culture, not his original designers.
@@kaijunaut1954 they made ehim better, but still the original designers were the atcual creators. who created superman, john byrne? who created batman, frank miller?
@@johnrunion5357 Superman was great before Byrne. Batman was great before Miller. Wolverine was invisible before he became a part of the New X-Men and Claremont/Byrne fleshed him out into a blockbuster star. If you don’t get that, I can’t help you.
@@kaijunaut1954 still the original creators should get creative credit. besides dc's timberwolf debuted in 1964. thanks to dave cockrum there are many similarities between dc's legion and the 'new' x-men, but he didn't create either team. goodbye!
Every Funky Flashman has a Houseroy.
He’s just salty that they ain’t never gonna make a Cobalt Man movie.
Yeah i'm not so sure about that i almost can picture Roy changing cobalt man into a 12 black trans He/she, Marvel SOB i'm in.
@@EdDiaz-fz4kjThat’s sounds amazing, throw in the fact they won gold at the Olympics in female boxing. And try to cast Ben Stiller. I’m in.
In Roy's mind, Roy Thomas = Stan Lee, Jr.
amen brother!
He did a Wolverine guess appearance in Avengers Westcoast.
I truly love the work that did in Marvel and DC, but what he’s doing is wrong.
Looks like Roy lived long enough to become the villain to his former employees.
He's 83 years old. Why does someone that old even care enough to say that?
Stan left all of Marvel in the hands of Roy Thomas and Gerry Conway, and they produced a mountain of crappy comics. If they had not brought in guys like Jim Starlin, Marv Wolfman, Frank Miller, Roger Stern, and of course, Jim Shooter, that company would have died an ignominious death.
Agreed but the marketing and business aspect was not under their purview. It’s mainly a credit to the Star Wars adaptations that helped pull them out of financial issues
I don't think Conway was much different from Wolfman. Englehart and Gerber were more unique
@@__Luke__ Englehart was maybe the best continuity comic writer the industry ever had. He actually knew the history of all the characters he wrote. He respected the work.
@@trublgrl I wonder why they never let him write Fantastic Four or Spider-Man.
@@__Luke__ Englehart did have a long run on FF in the late 80's. I thought it was a really good until he stopped caring. If I remember right, he'd removed Reed and Sue from the team, and replaced them with Crystal and Sharon Ventura. But editorial forced him to bring Reed and Sue back. At that point, he clearly stopped caring, starts using the John Harkness pen name, and the book starts sucking.
Ah, how I miss the days when comics was fun.
They still are. Dynamite and others still have joy between their pages.
Have you thought of changing comic lanes? I started with one Batman over three years ago and from that into the older Big Two, 2000 AD, The Boys, TWD, DMZ, Millarworld. Top Cow dark fantasy didn't work for me.
I like sci-fi mostly, but then again Thor and WW who I also like are not sci-fi characters. Most of the characters I follow have sci-fi origins or backed up by sci-fi tech and gadgets.
They are fun. The behind the scenes drama isnt fun. You think Jack Kirby was having fun while Stan Lee hogged all the glory..?
Channels called thinking critical bub.
Try it sometime
@@cicolasnage5684 Oooh, sick burn. Please shut up and relax.
Jack Kirby was onto something when he made the funky flashMan and house roy ( Stan Lee and Roy Thomas)
Oh man! I'm trying to remember the title, wasn't it a DC book...Mr. Miracle?
@@jimjam51075 Yes it was Mr.Miracle #6 I believe.
@@braviafeed Yes! Wow, Kirby really shone in that book. I don't know if it was the timing in his life or the restraint required for the book itself.
Funny, I just found my trade paperback of his Mister Miracle and started rereading it. Now I need to jump ahead to that
As a fan of his writing on All Star Squadron, The Invaders, and Infinity Inc this hurts big time.
the invaders is my all time favorite comic series...i agree 1,000% !
@@johnrunion5357 Yes. I loved the storyline where The Invaders and the Liberty Legion team up against the Iron Cross.
I poke fun at the guy, but this is why Rob is so protective of Deadpool, Cable and others.
With everyone dead, he saw it as a chance to make a killing on the con circuit. Imagine people taking 50+ a sig for 180/181 for anyone wanting to get the full set since marvel officiated it.
This is pure shit weasel tactics. Waiting for his betters to pass and try to scoop up all the spare change.
Hes negativity affecting the families of those who did the work and deserved the praise.
They should go through all his creator credits and split them with the editors.
spot on!
Roy Thomas has always been real historian of the American comic book industry. He must be a big fan of Bob Kane and is clearly copying that playbook.
Wow, Roy Thomas used to be one of greatest names back in the Bronze Age Marvel. Your behavior is shameful. Greed is really one was the greatest evils of humankind.The saddest part is that Len Wein isn't alive to defend himself.
Absolutely could not believe his name was even in the Deadpool and Wolverine credits
I was originally planning to meet Roy at Supanova in Brisbane for a signature, because I loved the guy's work on Silver Age Daredevil. This video about him has certainly changed my mind about paying for his autograph.
If Roy didn't suggest Len add a character, if he didn't suggest the name Wolverine and if he didn't suggest that he be Canadian, there wouldn't be a Wolverine PERIOD. Herb Trimpe, John Romita Sr & Len Wein have already confirmed in past interviews.
Roy is a legitimately important figure in the American comic industry. I would have once argued this would be beneath him, but we've seen over and over in modern times that even great artists are as flawed as anyone else.
It's the Stan Lee method. Though to be fair he wasn't always like that. Lee knocked away Kirby, and Ditko's credits for years. Artist inputs were often swiped. Thank you Wes.
An unfortunate thing is that someone who had a big hand in Wolverine’s creation hasn’t been mentioned, that being Dave Cockrum. Cockrum came up with the idea for the character who would become Timberwolf for the Legion of Superheroes, leaving DC taking his initial idea to Marvel with him and with the input of Len Wein, Romita Sr and Herb Trimpe along with Roy, created Wolverine.
Roy wanting to take the full credit is horrible, it being especially unfortunate because he was Stan Lee’s apprentice and kind of groomed to take his place in the Marvel creators place. But, it does go along with something Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko both said about Stan taking credit for their part in creating the characters that made Marvel, Roy being Stan’s student may have learned more from the master than we all think.
Taking from the widows and families of Len Wein, JR SR, and Herb Trimpe who might I add was absolutely shat on at the end of his tenure with Marvel
amen!
Len Wein was by far the biggest creator of Wolverine. Before he started at Marvel, Roy Thomas on the other hand was much more of a twin to Jim Shooter - a lifetime fanboy who got an office job where he could view the bigtime artists up close and personal. Does that make him a creator? Nope. I was both a fan and loyal customer of Marvel (and DC) at the time, and how much did I ever hear of Thomas creating any of the X-men? Not a peep. BTW, Jack Kirby drew the first batch of X-men comics, anyway.
If Thomas really came up with the concept and told others to make it happen, and then oversaw and tweaked the execution to meet his original vision, then Im pretty certain that's co-creation?
The Wolverine that Chris Claremont honed into the character we know today has nothing whatsoever to do with Roy Thomas except the name and maybe the claws.
An editor is NOT a creator. Their job is to make sure the stories work, that actions of characters make sense in given scenarios and the depictions remain true to their established personalities.
That a story/plot doesn’t break the rules, or conventions of the fictional world, make suggestions and help writers and artists turn out their best and meet deadlines.
Oversight, revising grammar and punctuation isn’t creative work it’s administrative.
Too strong a condemnation. The fact is *legally* it’s a gray area who created what otherwise he wouldn’t have a case, though I do agree on premise that I don’t think an editor who just gives an idea should get credit for the actual creation. The creator laws are more clear now so this probably wouldn’t be an issue today. With what I know of the situation, I don’t agree with Roy‘s actions. That said, Roy Thomas has been an Intercal part of not only the silver age to present and in promoting and keeping the history of the comic industry alive. Roy is unquestionably a beloved creator and has numerous creations to his name that are not disputed.
So? Roman Polanski made China town and he assaulted a kid up the butt.
Yes, what Roy did is miles ahead different that what Roman did but at the same time you have to admit what Thomas did is very weasel-y.
I can understand if he did such a thing if wein, romita sr and trimpe were alive but the simple fact is those guys cannot speak up. Hell after this debacle I wouldn’t be surprised if Thomas took undue credit for things he didn’t create. He was an underling of Stan Lee so it makes sense.
It is no excuse for cheating his dead colleagues families out of money they deserve and taking credit even though he did nothing to contribute 2 the creation of Wolverine
@@tayojones9460 appreciate the reply. If you’ll re-read what I wrote I’m saying I don’t agree with Roy’s position.
@@tayojones9460as far as we know, that's just Wes overreacting.
Greed. This is what greed looks like.
Its actually the 50th anniversary of Wolverine this year!
Wes, he is a co creator of Wolverine. He was the writer before Len was.
There is a video where Herb stated that Roy, not Len, came to him with Wolverine.
Herb received no creator credits when he was alive.
You’re right about the optics but Roy has stated his position when they were all alive.
Btw he claims he he doesn’t receive any money for this
@@patrickmoreau7592 Thank you! It gets depressing reading these rude comments from people who obviously know nothing of comics history, even attacking Stan.
@@DocReasonable Thanks Doc! Keeping it real.
@@DocReasonable it must be an old interview because Herb passed away before tic Tok. His story is the same. Thank you 😊
@@patrickmoreau7592 Obviously it was recorded before Trimpe passed away... SMH
@@patrickmoreau7592 You're also wrong in claiming that Roy Thomas wrote Wolverine before Len Wein did. Wein wrote Hulk issues 180-182, the first ever Wolverine story. You just make sht up and claim it to be fact.
Roy Thomas’ biggest accomplishments were getting Marvel the contract for the original Star Wars comic and getting Marvel to diversify into sword and sorcery comics. He kept the company alive long enough for Jim Lee to reorganize production schedules.
Roy Thomas kept Marvel together in the 70s. Jim Shooter kept Marvel together in the 80s. Tom DeFalco kept Marvel together in the 90s. Joe Quesda kept Marvel together in the 2000s.
I love Jim Lee as an artist but I think he is a mid editor. Lee is good in handling his own companies, but not DC.
I'm confused when you say Jim Lee, the artist had something to do with scheduling at Marvel? He was the superstar artist for Marvel during his tenure but what exactly did he do as an editor for Marvel?
Imagine waiting for your friends and co-creators to pass away... *THEN* deciding to stab their families in the back to erase a piece of their fathers (and grandfathers) legacy. He is already elderly man whose lived a rich life, who already has alot of wealth saved for his estate, and whom already has all the worlds success! There is nothing to gain from this, and it is senseless. I'm sorry but this is *PURE EVIL,* and Roy Thomas at this point is just a PURE BLACK-HEARTED EVIL man. If I were him: I would be fearful of the life he has led in recent years... because at his age it's not all that long before his time will come too, and he has to explain this to his maker and the men he screwed over. 😑
Let's be frank here... Chris Claremont, Rob Liefeld, maybe Fabian Nicieza, and certainly Joe Kelly are really the only names that needed to be mentioned in the credits.
they did not however create wolverine.
This is like when a classic band that had platinum sales in their heyday breaks up and a few members are dead and the producer, who never played an instrument or sang on any of their recordings starts telling interviews "You know I co-wrote some of those hits, right?"
IMO it's always writers who try to take credit for the characters compared to the artists. I think the writers forget the medium they are writing in. If there is no art then your stories would just be a novel and not a comicbook!
We're just lucky he hasn't taken credit for co-creating Conan...yet.
yet.
The grin after the “ F U “ made me burst out in laughter 😂
So wolverine was created by writer Len Wein and Marvel art director John Romita Sr. Romita designed the character's costume, but the character was first drawn for publication by Herb Trimpe. Since 2017, Marvel editor-in-chief Roy Thomas has also claimed co-creator credit.
He was really Roy’s idea.
Sometimes you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
perfect!
I bought a Wolverine comic one time so I too, would also like to be thanked for the creation of the character.
In some fairness to Roy, though, he wasn't always a dickish dingbat. For decades he mumbled away, but was always quite harmless. They let him play with his stapler in the comic company basement, much like Office Space. It's only recently that he hit the POS mode. Like getting extra old means for many people that they hit the brick wall of turning into Mr. Al Ziemer.
Roy Thomas is 83 years old thus it would not be a far stretch of the imagination that he is going senile thus he might be imagining this. This is not a joke or an insult towards him or the elderly but I have witnessed dementia (Alzheimer) with seniors too often in my life.
He still seems pretty sharp in recent interviews
I think it's a good point.
Bob Kane did everyone a bad turn by insisting on sole credit for Batman and making it stick. Bob Kane set a bad precedent. Roy Thomas is following that bad precedent. He's making it all about how much credit you can grab.
He's doing the Stan Lee hahahahaha
I personally met Chris Claremont in the 80s and gave him the pitch for X-Mens Jubilee i aint got No credit for that. Still gets me evrytime i see the character Jubilee
I didn’t know he was so petty.
Herb Trimpe is literally on video saying 'Roy Thomas came up with the concept and the name Wolverine.' He then assigned John Romita to sketch up the character.
However...
Marvel fan Andy Olsen was the true creator of Wolverine. He submitted his concept in 1973 for a contest in Marvel's FOOM magazine (issue #2). In 2014, Andy explained:
"I had heard of a creature called wolverine. From what I knew it was reputed to be pound for pound meanest animal on Earth. Not even Grizzly bears would tangle with one. A worthy attitude to have when fighting crime. Wolverine it was. So I set on using that as a base concept. If you notice in my adolescent sketch there is a pattern on the back of his costume that mimics the fur shading of the animal as well as the front mask sort of like the markings of its head. The details other than that eludes me, but looking back at the sketch he seemed to have a metal skeleton and no claws, because I couldn't imagine a superhero scratching an opponent. Sissies scratch. I sat down and worked up my sketches eventually working up a finished drawing to send off."
Roy Thomas attended Robert E Howard Days in Cross Plains, TX, back in 2006 or 2007. I had an independent arts themed newspaper back then, and I interviewed him for the paper. He was very pleasant and very cool, but even then he was taking credit for creating Wolverine. I left that part out of my article because I thought that it was simply too much to swallow lol
Whats really baffling is that 100 years of comic rights disputes and comics still dont have a system to determine who create something and who collaborated with the hair color for example. In manga i dont see this kind of things, mean they have a sistem that prevent this shennanigans
Stan taught Roy well.
It does tarnish Roy’s legacy though. He saved Marvel per Jim Shooter through Star Wars. He brought Conan to Marvel. I would say he created the Vision but that was at Stan Lee’s direction to maintain the copyright to the Golden age character.
Wes, another great video from you, and I agree about RT. I have a question for you, though, that I am wondering about it. When Len and Herb created Wolverine, isn' it fair to say that the character was pretty much just a costume with claws? The Wolverine we came to know with mutant healing powers, Weapon-X, his iconic personality and almost everything else was really Chris Claremont, wasn't it? I'm not trying to take anything away from Len and Herb, but didn't they intend on the character to be some one off that would likely never even appear again? Wasn't it Claremont who really "created" Wolverine?
I believe the same issue would apply to Deadpool, Joe Kelly really expanded on the cast and characters that have been the influence of the films.
I paint in watercolors and my best friend Bruce passed away in 2021…he did cartoon illustrations and wanted to be syndicated. Back in the 80s, we went to a local festival where a cartoonist from Tulsa was set up. Bruce wanted to show him his work and he wouldn’t look at it. Not to be rude, but he said if I look at your work…then in the future I do something similar. You could come back and say I stole your idea. So I understand why artists writers are so protective. Anyone could say that’s my idea or I should get the credit. It’s sad that people get so greedy and want credit. Or blame someone for stealing their idea.
So many different people have worked on Wolverine to establish an evolved his story over time Wolverine is truly a character created and for all
Every Wolverine fan needs to thank John Byrne. Claremont was going to drop Wolverine from the X-Men but Byrne talked him into keeping him. If it wasn’t for that, Hulk 181 would probably be only $20.
Well, consider his legacy. The Guy Who Killed Gwen Stacey.
Roy Thomas is not trying to be "THE MAN" responsible for the creation of Wolverine at all. He contributed something to the mix and in no way has ever tried to "wipe" out Wein's and Romita Sr. credit.
This sort of thing reminds me of Barry Bonds taking steroids and growth serum to bulk up and hit home runs. Bonds already had the requisite ten seasons and stats to be a first ballot Hall of Fame player.
Herb Trimpe stated that Roy Thomas came up with the concept of the character and the name.
He fucking waited till JR senior died so he could do this.
I’ve always appreciated his work and contributions to comics. This is disappointing.
in the 70's he was my very favorite writer and gerry conway my second. yes, this is very disappointing.
Roy Thomas has done some great things for comics. But Len Wein created Wolverine. Trimpe and Claremont deserve some recognition as well for fleshing him out. But in the end, this would be like Stan Lee saying he created Deadpool.
Pure evil!😠
**Deadpool Wolverine Spoiler**
If you saw the film you got goosebumps when Wolvie finally pulled on his iconic mask. That mask, that face, that countenance is worth fully 30% of the value of Wolverine, which I believe was contributed by Dave Cockrum in Ciant Sized X-Men #1, the mask in Wolverine's first appearance was kind of crappy.
At least 50% of Wolverine's value, however, is the claws, which I think can be attributed to John Romita's initial design.
Roy taking a page out of his mentor Stan Lees book. Taking Credit
I saw the film yesterday. It took me by surprise when I saw his name in the credits. I thought: Oh, so it is happening. The fact he waited for anyone who could contest this claim to shuffle off this mortal coil is... well... It's not the best look.
Wolverine was his idea. I actually met Roy, and he was really nice. I wanted to ask him what he thought of the Ultron movie.
And the proof is what he told you?
Or were you friends with him since those early years on Marvel?
Just asking kindly...
@@romelmunoz7957 Herb Trimpe also said Roy came up with the initial idea, although Wolverine first appeared in an issue of FOOM as a reader's creation.
@@DocReasonablethanks for the clarification 👍
Roy Thomas was also the ghost writer on The Amazing Spider-Man comic strip for the last few years even though Stan Lee was the only one who received writing credit. There was a month long story with Wolverine and Sabretooth. They were blood brothers just like the Fox movies and Wolverine was in a relationship with Jean Grey. I mean, it was bad but, as nicely as I can phrase this, it's just hard to tell what ideas were from Roy and what ideas were from Stan who was way past his prime. Also I'm sure the target audience that read newspapers every day was more familiar with Wolverine and Sabretooth from the movies than I was. Maybe it was just bad to me since I'm more familiar with the pair from comic books.
I mean the credits say Stan created Cap right above Frank Miller creator of Elektra in DP Wolverine.
Those guys families should be big mad.
Liked his work on the Avengers and Conan just wondered what happened to him.
Is there actually money involved? Wolverine was created well before royalties and was work for hire.
EXCELLENT WORK. WES FROM THINKING CRITICAL
Maybe you mentioned this and I missed it, but what about Chris Claremont? He might not have created Wolverine but he actually developed the character and gave him the backstory and history we all know. I’m curious to hear his thoughts on the matter.
I’m not sure what Roy is fighting for. Lego money? Lego is known for actually paying royalties on creator deals. Marvel Studios will do their best to fck creators. Marvel comics don’t sell enough. What’s left? A piece of the video games? Maybe Roy is being so vocal because he’s just one of a couple of contributors to Wolverine still alive?
braggin' rights?
so he had creative input on characters that are making a billion dollars and should not get any credit ... with the amounts of money wolverine has made there is plenty to go around
Thomas stature started to wear thin with me when he threw a ton of shade on Kirby on the unending debate on who created what at marvel and really who to say that ultimately if it wasn't for the timber wolf character at DC there wouldn't be a wolverine character period......
Man, this hurts. I've been a fan of Roy's work for most of my comic collecting career, mainly his DC stuff, and this just pisses me off. As much as he's done for comics, there is no need for him to try and shoehorn himself into the creations of others. It really sucks when someone you've admired most of your life turns out to be a real asshole.
Can someone explain to me how Liefeld was friends with Wein and Trimpe for 49 years? The guy is only 56. He would have been 48 when Trimpe died and 50 when Wein died. I was never good at math, but that just doesn't add up to me.
I dont know why so many people are surprised that a lot of comic writers and creatives behind the scenes are a bunch of assholes. Just cause they created a character or wrote a series/character that you like doesn't automatically mean they're a good person.
Have Chris Claremont and John Byrne said anything about this? Was really expecting to see something from them on this...🤔
looks like roy the boy swiped a page from stan the man's playbook.